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Aug 9 12 11:38 AM

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I'm not sure if this counts as a pharmaceutical. I just wanted to get anyone's thoughts on this...

This is from a promotional website for a brand of hypothiocyanate (Kib500 (UK)/1st Line (US)/Pathoremo(?):

The hypothiocyanite ion is one of the most important effector elements in our innate immune system, and is a major first-line defence against infection. Present in many secretions including milk, tears, saliva, and airway and gut surface fluids, this ion has an incredibly broad spectrum of antimicrobial activity against gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, viruses and fungi (Pruitt & Reiter ’85). It is important for the control of microorganisms in milk from lactating animals, and is critically involved in cell-mediated pathogen killing.
This defence system utilises the commonly present thiocyanate ions as one substrate to produce ‾OSCN (hypothiocyanite) ions. These ions are extremely toxic to virtually all microorganisms. They inhibit glycolysis and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH)/nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH)–dependent reactions in bacteria (Reiter & Perraudin ’91). They also oxidize the thiocyanate residues present on many viruses (Mangold & Streeck ‘93), thus breaking up the viral coat structure (Almeida et al ‘79).
These are impressive modes of pathogen-killing, but ‾OSCN is also important in protecting host tissues.
The other substrate used in the synthesis of hypothiocyante ions is hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide is produced by a number of bacterial species and by inflammatory sites through reactions mounted by the host, being responsible for much tissue damage. By preventing hydrogen peroxide buildup, ‾OSCN synthesis is a doubly important defence mechanism.
Hypothiocyanite ions are not toxic to human cells, and have little if any effect on probiotic species, making them a near-perfect antibiotic system. And it is very difficult indeed for microorganisms to acquire resistance to ‾OSCN. If it was easy for pathogens to develop resistance to ‾OSCN we would not have survived as a species because this key element in our immune system would have been disabled.
The bactericidal effects of ‾OSCN can be effectively mimicked and amplified by delivering hypothiocyanite ions directly. This technology has been adopted by the WHO for bulk milk sterilisation. It has most recently been utilised as a therapeutic strategy in the UK and in Finland, where it is widely used by the dental profession in the prevention and management of periodontal disease. In our product we deliver the OSCN- either orally or by inhalation. By these means we are rapidly gaining a reputation as an extremely effective and safe anti-infective for use in gut and systemic infections.

I've found a couple of PDFs with a bit of information on treatment:

I can't find a lot of info on this, just a couple of user's experiences and a lot of marketing. There's some French pharmaceutical company producing a product called Meveol which combines lactoferrin and hypothiocyanite, though I think it is inhaled.

Something seems suspicious about the lack of details surrounding this considering how long it has been about; maybe because the trial is still underway, I don't know. I'm tempted to try it with the xylitol and lactoferrin, but it is expensive stuff. Hopefully someone here who is less impulsive can give a more level-headed analysis.

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#1 [url]

Aug 12 12 3:33 PM

Someone in my lab worked with it, she wrote a few papers on it. Your body produces it naturally. 
We didnt look into what happens if you give that to humans, we looked more into the basic mechanistic pathways. 

I would stay with lactoferrin (w/o xylitol, since it feeds bacteria) and serrapeptase. Maybe buy interfase, if you are up for it. 
You can always add colostrum which has all these things combined. 

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#3 [url]

Aug 13 12 3:01 PM

Depends on the question. 
Lactoferrin is a protein which is able to bind iron ions, and it is in milk. Transferrin is also an iron binding protein, but it is found in blood and in cells. 
If you have enough stomach acid and pancreas enzymes, you can make apolactoferrin out of lactoferrin, and increase the binding, eg the protein catches free iron in the food, thus diminishing the iron for pathogens. 
Some pathogens are able to digest transferrin from the body to increase their iron uptake. 

So...what is the question? Is it feasible to take this stuff to inhibit iron uptake? Yes. But I am not sure how specific the enzymes of the bugs are to cut transferrin, so I tend more to lactoferrin, since its a) cheaper, b) not produced in our body and therefore not identical with transferrin, so it might be that it is not digested by bugs. 

It makes sense even if you dont have bugs, since it reduces free iron in the gut lumen, which can produce free radicals and cause inflammation (eg cancer on the long run), and we have a very high protein diet. 

Colostrum has lactoferrin, antibodies and growth factors, 
Apolactoferrin can take up more iron, Lactoferrin is the cheapest. 

Ideal solution: Balanced diet with lots and lots of yoghurt and kefir (all the goodies of milk, including lactoferrin, probiotics, calcium, kefirin, etc), and lots of broccoli and other cabbages (vitamin c to turn bad iron into good iron, sulfonamides, MSM, fibre). 

Once thing we all tend to forget: not only bugs cause our symptoms, but also a lack of good bugs, inflammation, wounds, etc.. I mean, I took so many pills and things in my desperate attempt of killing what I have, but I completely oversaw that the pain might have been caused by a wound (ulcer), and I kept hurting myself with the stuff I was taking. (vit c, apple cider vinegar, HCL...). 
Diet is really, really important. It is so much slower than pills, but so much cheaper and healthier on the long run, especially since food can add other things that might be needed. 
For example, its great if you take b12, but if your body cannot use it since b6 or biotin is missing...or calcium, or magnesium, or zinc, or vit a...

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#4 [url]

Aug 13 12 4:11 PM

great details, as always
I guess my question would be which is best to take after/during antibiotics to heal the gut? 
Seems like lactoferrin. 

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#5 [url]

Aug 13 12 5:17 PM

Indeed, lactoferrin and/or colostrum, as well as s.boulardii and Lactobacilli probiotics. You can take probiotic bacteria, as long as they are 2-4 h away from the antibiotics. 
I took s boulardii first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening (since they bloat if too close to food) and L acidophilus and LGG 15 mins before lunch and last thing in the evening. I also ate my kefir and yoghurt during the day, at least 2 hours away from the antibiotics. 

Gut feels fine, still developed oral thrush, though (even with GSE). I am now gargling with olive oil and ACV daily to get rid of it. 

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#6 [url]

Aug 13 12 5:59 PM

A few members have suggested I dont take boulardii during treatment. 

My die off symptoms have been close to zero (only mild fatigue) after five days of tindamax followed by five days (out of ten) on Paramo. Not feeling any positive changes either. 

Could taking boulardii while taking these other antibiotics block or inhibit their effectiveness?

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#7 [url]

Aug 13 12 7:22 PM

On the contrary. Since boulardii is a yeast, and no bacteria, it cannot be killed or inhibit the AB. The cellwall of this yeast is a unique prebiotic and stimulant of the gut mucosa, which is why it is so effective against e.coli, amebiasis etc. 
It usually diminishes nasty side effects of AB. 
I also had no side effects from my ABs, other than a thrush now. I guess that I reduced pathogens already with my strict diet and the supplements I took before. 
You should always take boulardii during AB, since it is the only thing that can prevent candida from moving in during AB. 
BUT if you take antifungals, forget it. Then you need to introduce probiotic bacteria. 

If a probiotic is taken with AB, it will only make the die off worse. Grapefruit juice can interfere, and so will DGL. Some antioxidants can inhibit ABs, too. Not eating enough fat with meals can interfere as well. 

Could you tell me your symptoms in a short personal message? Not your history, not what has happened, but only your symptoms now, and when they occur, and what makes it worse. Maybe I can pick something up. 
When was the last time you did a MM test? 

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#8 [url]

Aug 14 12 4:00 AM

Sechmeth, are you a nutritionist?

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