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Sep 23 13 11:18 AM

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 My experiment with Goldenseal Leaf (leaf not root) is in the 3rd cycle and appears to be giving results -  this is reference to the post made in this category (that GS leaf is capable of stopping efflux pump activity).   As mentioned previously, I had achieved die off using a combination of drugs and 2 other times using other means.   

I started with 500mg one time per day -  500mg 2x/day appears to be too much.  Combining with other antimicrobials that have worked in the past.   Will continue with the experiment.   So far it seems like a positive experience.  

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#2 [url]

Sep 23 13 12:02 PM

That's good to hear - which brand are you using?

I recently stopped the garlic capsules (NOW foods) and Milk Thistle (Jarrow forumlas) and definitely felt worse - I was taking them twice a day with meals.

I have actually succumbed to the Doxy/Metro combo because I wasn't really getting anywhere fast with botanicals, I'm worried I am going to make things worse but feel like I desperately need to try something.

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Sep 23 13 4:06 PM

rxseahawk:  Eradication - by no means is the Goldenseal leaf helping me feel better :(  I ramped up back to 2 on Saturday along with caprylic acid which previously took them down - and that was not a good choice (too much)  will back off to 1 per day.   I will see how this turns out.  


The pattern seems evident in that stopping and starting the goldenseal leaf creates and stops the occurrences which I can only presume is die off.   The person who recommended this says this has helped many people - he uses this in combination with neem and artemesia though I think that artemesia should be used with caution.  See this link for the discussion I had. http://pptu.lefora.com/2013/08/28/efflux-pump-protocol/#post4    Of course any antimicrobial can work including the drugs.  


Drug failures can only come from 3 sources:
1/  Incorrect drug
2/  Treatment time failure
3/  Antibiotic resistance
Of course this would include herbal antibiotics. 


I found that using Banyan's Botanicals Joint Health product has helped and I chose it because it has a multitude of antimicrobial herbs such as tinospora, boswellia, guggul etc.   In addition to that I was cycling calendula tea, neem leaf (not oil), pine needle oil and a variety of essential oils.   I also found graviola to be helpful in fact it was working previously but again stopped after the 5 day window.  


After talking with many people and experiments, I know that this is a common thing among antibiotic resistance (works for a bit then stops)  - this is classic efflux pump working.   Some people advocate cycling (using different products at staggered times).  


There was a member who used ADP oregano oil along with Ivermectin and got relief - the oregano oil is known to stop the efflux pumps.  I tried oregano oil (not ADP) and did not see results, but they swear that the ADP is different.   Another person used it and it helped but did not fix the problem.   You have to combine the right antimicrobial with the inhibitor and I think if the infection is long standing that reducing biofilms is necessary.   See the protocol for this on the protocol page. 


Working hard to reduce the oxidation that this is creating - drinking more water and antioxidants - vitamin C has always been the go to guy - I dose up pharmaceutical grade to bowel tolerance.  It (vitamin C) has always been the best.   I think it is wise to avoid antioxidants during treatment phases since they can reduce the effectiveness of the treatments. 


I had no idea the lengths that I would have to go through with this - it has been an ordeal and then some.   I am thankful for the people here who give new perspectives with their input.  Let me know if you have more questions. 

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Sep 28 13 3:00 PM

Resuming the goldenseal leaf after a short break - down to 1 cap per day of Nature's Way with no other antimicrobials - the last dose was too much to handle (2 per day + other antimicrobials).   There is a clear pattern emerging and will continue.   When taking GSL, I am noticing bad BM where after not taking BM returns to normal.   

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Oct 8 13 1:10 PM

^ Ettefagh K.A., Burns J.T., Junio H.A., Kaatz G.W., Cech N.B., "Goldenseal (Hydrastis canadensis L.) Extracts Synergistically Enhance the Antibacterial Activity of Berberine via Efflux Pump Inhibition", Planta Medica 2010

Mechanism of action[edit]

Herbalist Paul Bergner investigated the research and has been unable to find case reports where the level of intestinal pathogens are lower after taking goldenseal.[13] In fact, a study by Rabbani[14] where men with E. coli induced diarrhea had 42–48% reduced symptoms after taking berberine showed unchanged levels of intestinal bacteria, pathogenic or otherwise.
It appears likely that goldenseal shares with Mahonia (Oregon grape) and Berberis (Barberry) the ability to inhibit the drug resistance efflux pumps (MDR pumps) of bacteria, as discussed below.
Constituents and modern pharmacology[edit]

Goldenseal contains the isoquinoline alkaloids: hydrastine, berberine, berberastine, hydrastinine, tetrahydroberberastine, canadine, and canalidine.[15] A related compound, 8-oxotetrahydrothalifendine was identified in one study.[16] One study analyzed the hydrastine and berberine contents of twenty commercial goldenseal and goldenseal-containing products and found they contained variously 0%-2.93% hydrastine and 0.82%-5.86% berberine.[17] Berberine and hydrastine act as quaternary bases and are poorly soluble in water but freely soluble in alcohol. The herb seems to have synergistic antibacterial activity over berberine in vitro, possibly due to efflux pump inhibitory activity.[18]
Multiple bacteria and fungi, along with selected protozoa and chlamydia are susceptible to berberine in vitro.[19] Berberine alone has weak antibiotic activity in vitro since many microorganisms actively export it from the cell (although a whole herb is likely to work on the immune system as well as on attacking the microbes and hence have a stronger clinical effect than the antibiotic activity alone would suggest).[citation needed] Interestingly, there is some evidence for other berberine-containing species synthesizing an efflux pump inhibitor that tends to prevent antibiotic resistance, a case of solid scientific evidence that the herb is superior to the isolated active principle.[20] However, it is not yet known whether goldenseal contains a drug resistance efflux pump inhibitor, although many antimicrobial herbs do.[citation needed]
Toxicity[edit]

Most of the research that is popularly attributed to goldenseal has actually been into the constituent berberine, which goldenseal has in common with a variety of other medicines including oregon-grape, coptis, phellodendron, barberry (Berberis vulgaris) and yellowroot. However, constituents frequently act differently in isolation than a whole herb acts in the body. In 1996, the committee of the European Union that regulates drugs placed barberry in a table of Herbal Drugs with Serious Risks without any Accepted Benefit because it contains berberine.[citation needed] Paul Bergner investigated the literature and was able to find only a single report of potential adverse effects of berberis species, berberine-containing plants, or berberine itself in a computer search of the MEDLINE and TOXLINE databases of the U.S. National Library of Medicine. This was a study in China that showed that berberine sulfate is inappropriate for the treatment of newborn infants with prenatal jaundice.[21] However that is not a likely scenario in a country where babies born jaundiced are hospitalized, but it does lend credence to the traditional advice not to take goldenseal or other berberine herbs during pregnancy.[22]
Research into the toxicology and pharmacology of goldenseal has focused on berberine and hydrastine, which are antimicrobial, chloretic and each have a variety of other properties helping immunity. But toxicity in a concentrated constituent does not translate to toxicity of the whole herb, which contains many other compounds. In one study, the lethal dose (LD50) for rats was 12 times lower with hydrastine than with goldenseal extract.[23][24]
A study where pregnant rats fed were about 47 times the usual human dose of 26 mg/kg concluded, "Maternal liver weights were increased at ≥6250 ppm, suggesting possible enzyme induction. There was no definitive evidence of developmental toxicity in this study."[25] Another study, where mice were fed ~300 times the estimated human intake from dietary supplements, concluded, "Maternal liver weights were increased at greater than 12,500 ppm, but in the absence of treatment-related histopathological lesions. At the high dose, definitive evidence of developmental toxicity was limited to a statistically significant (~8%) reduction in average fetal body weight per litter."[26]
The lethal dose (LD50) of berberine isolates in humans is thought to be 27.5 mg/kg. Berberine is absorbed slowly orally; it achieves peak concentrations in 4 hours and takes 8 hours to clear[27] Berberine is excreted in the urine and human studies of berberine show evidence it can be absorbed through the skin. Pharmacokinetic data is not available for hydrastine or goldenseal root powder. Berberine in humans can cause blocking of receptors in smooth muscle, blocking potassium channels in the heart and reducing ventricular tachycardia, inhibiting intestinal ion secretion and toxin formation in the gut and increasing bile secretion.[28]
While goldenseal, like all alkaloid-rich herbs including coffee and tobacco should be avoided during pregnancy and given to very young children with care, it appears that goldenseal is unlikely to be toxic in normal doses. Interactions with drugs with narrow therapeutic windows like warfarin, ciclosporin, protease inhibitors and cardiac glycosides are potential concerns.
Side effects of goldenseal may include "digestive complaints, nervousness, depression, constipation, rapid heartbeat, diarrhea, stomach cramps and pain, mouth ulcers, nausea, seizures, vomiting, and central nervous system depression. High doses may cause breathing problems, paralysis, and even death. Long-term use may lead to vitamin B deficiency, hallucinations, and delirium."[8] In addition, goldenseal may cause brain damage to newborn babies if given to them directly or if taken by their breastfeeding or pregnant mothers,[5] and may affect blood pressure unpredictably because it contains several different compounds that have opposite effects on blood pressure.[8]
Cautions[edit]

Goldenseal has an affinity for mucosa, and is cooling so should not be used if an infection is at an early stage or there are more chills than fever.[citation needed] Goldenseal should be used with caution only while sick with illnesses that respond to hydrastine and berberine. It should generally not be taken for an early stage Upper Respiratory Infection (URI), but reserved for illnesses in which there is yellow or green phlegm.[citation needed] Generally a two-week maximum dosage is suggested.[citation needed] Taking goldenseal over a long period of time can reduce absorption of B vitamins. Avoid goldenseal during pregnancy and lactation, with gastrointestinal inflammation, and with proinflammatory disorders.[12]A recent study (2011) found rats fed with Goldenseal constantly for two years had a greater tendency towards tumor formation.[29]
Goldenseal has been found to have inhibited cytochrome P450 CYP2D6, CYP3A4, and CYP3A5 activity by approximately 40%, a statistically and clinically significant reduction.[30] CYP2D6 specifically is a known metabolizer of many commonly used pharmaceuticals, such as antidepressants (including all SSRIs except for fluvoxamine), neuroleptics, and codeine.[31] Combining Goldenseal with such medications should be done with caution and under the supervision of a doctor as it can lead to serious - perhaps fatal - toxicity.[32] Those with a genetic deficiency in these enzymes are at particular risk.

Last Edited By: linenup Oct 8 13 1:13 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Oct 10 13 10:36 PM

Experiencing lots of lymph soreness indicating some type of immune reaction - topped out at 6 goldenseal 500mg caps - did not notice any further die off at that point but had massive issues at lower levels (1 cap for two 1 week session then 2 for another 2 week session). Off the herb for the moment to see what comes out of this. My thinking is that die off occurred at the surface level. On supportive nutrients to help the gut heal.

The experiment is to test goldenseal leaf or herb (not root) for its ability to bind efflux pumps which are found in resistant organisms.   GSL has many chemical constituents to bind pump activity.   Adding anti-microbials while taking it seemed to potentiate the anti-microbial effect. 

Last Edited By: linenup Oct 10 13 10:39 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Oct 11 13 3:45 AM

What are you taking with it LU?

I am sure I have read that it is (root anyway) not to be taken for more than two weeks - does the leaf carry the same warning/?

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#10 [url]

Oct 12 13 10:35 AM

I have ordered some goldenseal (same as yours) as well as some Pau-d-arco and olive leaf - will see how it goes with them...

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Oct 21 13 3:37 PM

Reporting back on the goldenseal leaf experiment.   Have been off it for a 7-10 days waiting to get my gut ecology reset.   Thinking the Gs is quite strong and may blow out the healthy gut flora - back on my round of things such as kefir and a liquid probiotic along with glutamine, lysine, hemp fiber etc etc.   Noticeable reduction in the gut swelling - looking back, think there is something to the protocol since I was getting drastic die off.   Will resume it once the gut comes back into balance and will combine it with the other antimicrobials.  

Toxicity:  Sorry for the delay ebrooker about the toxicity issues in which I think we should investigate further but this is what the poster had to say:

Now, protozoa require constant pressure, and they require multiple things at once.  Again, one thing I know works is berberine, but you have to use 2400mg per day.  I've done reading on toxicity, there is none.  Once study fed a small mouse 83 grams, and couldn't kill it.
 

Last Edited By: linenup Oct 21 13 3:44 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Nov 9 13 2:34 AM

I have realized that the goldenseal leaf is a powerful adjunct to therapy. For people catching up, this advice was given to me from a member who has used it with these stubborn infections and claiming a good success rate. It is generally used with other antimicrobials, there is a distinction between goldenseal leaf and the root (leaf offering ability to stop efflux pump activity).

My experiment seemed to provide decent results. I found that I had high inflammatory conditions in the gut after taking it, whether from direct die off or a reduction in the bowel flora, my feeling is both. I was told by avreed that this herb can wipe out gut flora pretty easily. I used kefir plus a liquid probiotic along with hemp seed to cultivate healthy flora and now I am returning to normalized bm's. I gauge everything from the inflammation and the bowel movements (solid = healthy). I will wait another day or two before resuming the goldenseal. I will add that I started with 1 500mg cap (Nature's Way) and escalated to 2 then 3 per day. The referral stated that his wife was using 6 per day or 3000mg per day in split doses.

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Nov 9 13 5:20 AM

Thanks for the update LU.

My Nature's Way Goldenseal, Olive leaf and Pau'dau Arco arrived two days ago (I ordered them a month ago and they were shipped from the US).

I took all three yesterday, with my usual digestive enzyme and milk thistle, and found it quite harsh on my system. A few minutes after taking them for the first time I felt a pain in my left kidney area - don't know if this is a good or bad or bad sign. Plus my liver felt more congested than normal last night - again, don.t know if this good or bad.

Maybe I need to add some garlic? I am also cooking with more herbs, and noticed die off when I started using Rosemary and Thyme. Also using some mixed herbs including Oregano.

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Nov 22 13 9:30 AM

So I've been taking this combo for two weeks now, and I think it's been quite harsh on my system so am stopping for now. I get pains in the ends of my big bones (soles of feet and palms) and hips - so not sure if it's just harsh on my bone marrow or my infection is in my bone marrow and this is working against it.

I started taking Ox Bile a few days ago as well, and that seems to help with the feeling of pressure in my upper abdominal/liver area. Anyone else tried Ox Bile?

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Nov 23 13 2:59 AM

I think the 'harshness' is die off -- the original poster (OP) reported very good results based on the idea that these organisms are resistant and this stops it. I think this is the common thread with many aggressive pathogens, the immune system throws out the immune factors and resistant organism are able to fend off those attacks. Immune system becomes tired. Most other chronic infections share the same story (Lyme etc). This is where I believe the community is not focused on. My thinking is they need to refocus on stopping resistance otherwise we continue in the same circle.

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Nov 23 13 3:00 AM

I think the 'harshness' is die off -- the original poster (OP) reported very good results based on the idea that these organisms are resistant and this stops it. I think this is the common thread with many aggressive pathogens, the immune system throws out the immune factors and resistant organism are able to fend off those attacks. Immune system becomes tired. Most other chronic infections share the same story (Lyme etc). This is where I believe the community is not focused on. My thinking is they need to refocus on stopping resistance otherwise we continue in the same circle.

Someone has remarked that bowel ecology may be further thrown off by golden seal leaf.

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#17 [url]

Nov 26 13 12:57 AM

Focusing on detoxification of the gut, using charcoal and pascalite clay. Noticeable difference in distention of the abdomen. Can feel toxins being attached following Pascalite clay administration and not so much with the charcoal.

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Nov 26 13 9:48 AM

I have tried Bentonite clay and it seems to help - Pascalite has more calcium right?

Something I found helped a lot with bloating was Dr's Best Digestive enzymes - they are VERY strong. I actually stopped taking them as I think they started to digest my brush border cells after a while (which is possible) as I used to get pains (which stopped a while after taking them). Coconut and Turmeric mixed in warm water also helped a lot.

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Dec 19 13 8:44 AM

Saw a tweak of hope recently with my experiments. Something else got into me and have no idea what it was but I did treatment spreading in which I use a multitude of products. The idea is that if I rely on a single remedy, it may not be the right one. Organisms are all different and some respond to different remedies than others.

I think I cleared the other infection but in the meantime, I began to see return of normal stools that I have not seen for quite some time. This is a dead giveaway that something is working whereas loose stools indicate an inflamed gut which to me means that the infection is storming. Anti inflammatories can help such as turmeric, rosemary, red bush African tea even an aspirin.

I took something called Omega Wash* which is now relabeled under a different name which is a blend of essential oils that have antimicrobial activity. I took this with goldenseal leaf which is shown to stop antibiotic resistance. In addition to this I took neem powder and graviola along with Caprylic acid which all of these have had profound effects until the resistance stage started. I also made salt water from Himalaya sea salt, this was primarily to help with the adrenal cascade that I faced, I took this along with Ultra Potassium from Source Naturals. When the adrenals are in such a state of complete overwork that electrolytes are depleted.

I stopped and started the above and found that the above combination seemed to work. I am restarting for the third confirmation.

No therapy will work for prolonged periods (achieve complete die off) if the organisms have resistant factors. From everything I have learned, the only to achieve this is to stop the efflux pumps from working hence the goldenseal leaf experiment.

*I forgot to mention that I took Omega Wash previously by itself (without goldenseal leaf) with no effect.  This would indicate that the goldenseal leaf is possibly working. 

Last Edited By: linenup Dec 19 13 8:46 AM. Edited 1 time.

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Dec 19 13 8:48 AM

There was a previous report that someone eradicated protozoa using food grade essential oils and he did mention he addressed the biofilm environment as well. He mentioned that it took several adjustments to get it right. His posts are on the forum under the user name michael.

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